Cyberdeck Dialogue… or We Are Entirely Dense to (Cowboy) Boot

In response to Greg's response of my response…

The difference between the emerging of modernity and emerging of post-modernity seems significant to me only in your choice of the relationship of the players. You’re calling the protestants “The Church” when at the time, they were considered heretics. It sounds like here, that you’re using the designation “Christianity” to refer to the protestants or moderns. So who’s who in the current situation? It seems to me, that you as the poster child for post-modernism are in fact, advocating a purer form of religious authority. So you are a protestant. So where I get confused, is the “In other words.” Now “Christianity” seems to be referring to the pre-moderns. That form of Christianity, of course wasn’t trying to “keep up” with the larger culture, it WAS the larger culture. The correlation there is that this culture of “christianity” tried desperately to remain the larger, cultural authority, excommunicating those who questioned or threatened the wholesale submission to the infallibility and authority of the church leaders.
The modern church so often does this as well. I’m reminded of a statement by Mark Oestreicher in the margins of Kimball’s book, “Evangelicals swallowed modernism so completely many find it hard to separate modernism from Christianity”. Then a quote from Rod Lewis, “I am afraid that in our attempt to preserve “church”, we will drive “The Church” to the brink of extinction.“ That is why Simon’s idea of the hub with the spokes reaching out into the culture is so easily rejected. It doesn’t LOOK like church. The modern church is trying to “keep up” with the larger culture within the parameters of the post Darby traditions; the post-modern church is trying to find a way to make evident the relevance of the gospel of Christ to the larger culture.
That is why I see the current situation as not opposite, but very similar to the advent of modernism. Extraneous baggage, intentional cultural (outdated) trendiness, and people, hide the relevance of the message of hope and salvation from those who are desperately seeking it. They don’t see it because they are turned off or offended by those entrusted with bringing it to them. And we are so arrogant and in need of validation that we mistake their offense of us with offense to the gospel. We must be doing things right then, because Jesus told us that the gospel would offend. We haven’t offended them with the gospel, we’ve offended them with ourselves.
The bulk of what I had to say in my post yesterday was in reaction to a comment by Rick Warren in the foreword of Kimball’s book – ‘At Saddleback Church, we’ve changed styles of worship, programming, and outreach many times during our first twenty years…” This and a reference to a question from a youth pastor asking how can you possibly keep up with rapidly changing culture, spawns my comments. The way to “keep up” is to spend time with the people you’re trying to reach and minister to. Then I’m reminded of a statement by Greg Willis several years ago when, for some reason, we were discussing the ability to know when it was time to step out of student ministry. You said, “I guess its time to step out when you no longer care whether you are relevant.”
So… I agree with your second paragraph in its entirety, but once again we’ve got to ask the question, “how does this counter-culture transform the culture at large”? So I still hold that it is important to “keep up” with the changes in culture lest we speak a language that is foreign and thus inhibits the message.
How do we ensure that our love and care for one another doesn’t become love and care for the institution of our counter culture? This seems to me the biggest danger because we’ve seen it so often. Its cyclic. And post-modernism, with its openness, is more susceptible, I’m afraid. Modernism wants cookie cutter clones. Each generation expects the next generation to grow up and become the previous generation. Modernism expects post-modern to grow up and become modern. This, at least, has caused it to reach out to influence and try to mold everything into its image. Post-modern generations increasingly become more tolerant and less concerned with that which is different from them. In our growing love and care for those in our community, how can we ensure that we will still carry a burden for those who don’t know Jesus?